Socket 939 Roundup: Battle at the Top
by Wesley Fink on July 30, 2004 8:00 AM EST- Posted in
- Motherboards
Final Words
It was difficult to resist being a little sensationalist in this 939 roundup and titling the review, "Who needs 925X?" That would have been a fair title, however, since you can clearly see that all of the Socket 939/FX53 boards completely outperform Intel's top 560 on the top 925X motherboard. Even Media Encoding, the last bastion of Intel dominance, is now a dead heat with the new AutoGK benchmark.Any of the Socket 939 motherboards that we tested here would make a great home for a Socket 939 Athlon 64. They all perform very well at stock speed and any of them will serve you well. We even found that all six of the tested motherboards performed at the fastest timings available and a 2T Command Rate with 4 DIMMs on board, so even that is a non-issue.
However, in this go-round, there are a few criteria that begin to separate the boards that we tested. The two nForce3 Ultra motherboards did particularly well in Winstones, outperforming the VIA K8T800 PRO boards in these important benchmarks of overall real-world performance. We also found that the two nF3 boards in this roundup were consistent top performers, and, like other nF3-250 boards that we have tested, are complete with a working PCI/AGP lock for overclocking. This is not a criticism of VIA, because every VIA-based board that we tested in this roundup does indeed have a working lock. However, our concern remains that it sometimes took 2 or 3 revisions to get that working lock on the VIA boards - an issue that we have yet to see on any of the nForce3-250 boards. The good news is we are now confident that VIA has the PCI/AGP lock working, but there are boards floating around without this working feature. Our advice is to be cautious in a VIA purchase if this is an important specification for you. A little time for the market to settle should remove any concerns that you might have in buying a VIA K8T800 PRO chipset 939 or 754.
The KV2 Extreme is a remarkable step forward for ECS, and we can heartily recommend it as a good value if you plan to run only at stock speeds or you will only need modest overclocking capabilities. It is a very good effort at producing an Enthusiast-level ECS board. However, we think that this board needs to mature a bit more before it turns into a board that will satisfy most enthusiasts. We feel similarly about the MSI K8T Neo2-FIR, which was somewhat a surprise as the socket 754 K8T Neo was a favorite. Our concern is based on the fact that we went through 3 K8T Neo2 boards before we got one that really worked. That may just be coincidence, but it raises concern about the quality assurance of this particular product. The final board works very well, and is very fast at stock speed, but it falls well short of the remarkable overclocking capabilities of the sister K8N Neo2. A little time will likely take care of this issue, but we remain cautious for the time being.
Of our top four boards, we can honestly say that any of these 4 would be a great choice. The K8N Neo2 and Gigabyte K8NSNXP are both based on the nForce3 Ultra chipset, and the Abit AV8 and Asus A8V Deluxe Revision 2 are very clearly the top of the VIA boards, reaching our second best overclocks at 289 and 280. However, if you look carefully at the features, performance results, and just plain class in a market segment filled with top performers, the MSI K8N Neo2 stands out.
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Based on top performance, the full implementation of the nForce3 Ultra features, value, overclocking performance, and flexibility, the MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum emerges from a class of top Socket 939 Athlon 64 boards as our Gold Editors Choice. This makes the K8N Neo2 our choice as the best Athlon 64 motherboard that you can buy. MSI has produced two excellent motherboards in a row based on nVidia chipsets for Athlon 64. The K8N Neo for A64 Socket 754 was also one of our top choices for Single-Channel Athlon 64. The K8N Neo2 continues that performance as the top Athlon 64 motherboard that you can buy. |
The choice for Silver Editor's Choice is a bit more difficult. We could make arguments for the nF3 Ultra Gigabyte K8NSNXP-939, the VIA K8T800 PRO Abit AV8, or the VIA Asus A8V Deluse Rev. 2. However, when we look closely at value, we find the Abit and Asus are both much cheaper to buy than the Gigabyte, which sways our choice in those directions. As a result the Silver Editors Choice is a tie between two VIA K8T800 PRO motherboards - the Abit AV8 and the Asus A8V Deluxe Revision 2. Please note the award to Asus ONLY applies to Revision 2, since the first revision does not have a reliable working PCI/AGP lock.
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We are extremely pleased to award the Silver Editors Choice for best Athlon 64 Socket 939 motherboard to the Abit AV8. Abit proved you can build an excellent Enthusiast 939 motherboard, and have all the overclocking bells and whistles, with the VIA chipset. The Abit was not a standout in any one area in our tests, but it is a very balanced motherboard with all the Enthusiast features that we have come to expect from Abit motherboards. It is also an excellent value among Socket 939 motherboards. Abit has worked very hard to reach this level of performance with the VIA chipset, and they have produced a board that is really fun to use. |
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It gives great pleasure to also award the AnandTech Silver Editors Choice to the Asus A8V Deluxe Revision 2. It took Asus quite a while to get to this point, but there is a lot to like, and little to dislike, with the A8V Deluxe Revision 2. The A8V is not generally the fastest board here, this distinction now belongs to the nF3 Ultra boards, but it is definitely one of the best overclockers in the entire roundup. Asus has finally delivered on the promise of that first A8V, which reached high but just could not quite make the cut. Revision 2 is all we hoped we would see, and Asus deserves congratulations for the perseverance to stay the course and finally deliver one of the best Socket 939 boards on the market. While we still lean toward the nVidia nForce3 Ultra as the better solution for round 2 of the Athlon 64 chipset wars, there is no doubt Asus has massaged the K8T800 PRO for all it's worth - delivering the kinds of headroom we didn't think would even be possible with the VIA chipset. We can only admire the kind of Engineering prowess that took the A8V to what we see today. |
There are no real losers in this roundup, but there are clearly some winners that stand above the crowd. We look forward to the evolution of the 939 as the mainstream Athlon 64 socket, because that will bring even more choices to the marketplace. For now, there are several outstanding homes for your new 939 CPU, but in the future there will be even more choices, and even more opportunites for a new winner to emerge. That's what makes this industry fun for some and maddening for others - there is always the possibility something better is just around the corner.
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ThePlagiarmaster - Thursday, July 22, 2004 - link
#50 (RyanVM)...A quick check at pricewatch shows you CAN'T BUY IT (the 3.4EE S775, nor the 3.6E 775). Nobody even advertises the S775 for sale at top speeds. The 3.6EE has not even been released yet, and the 3.4EE can't be bought (775's I'm talking). Of course anand could get some engineering sample as before (Intel Confidential written on all pics I've seen ANYWHERE), but are we comparing something I probably won't be able to get for 2 months or more? Prescott 3.4 anyone? Took 3+ months for these to FINALLY show up as a product I can buy (and they were announced Feb2nd I think, reviewers got samples march 21st or so))...I'd call that a bit of an early review, just kills sales for the competitor as people wait for Intel (nvidia 6800 ultra anyone?). If you CAN buy it, show it to me. Otherwise for all intents and purposes the 3.4EE S775 chip doesn't exist. Is that a bit clearer for you? Did you bother to read where I said only 10 places are even selling the 3.4EE for S478? Paper launches and whats AVAILABLE are two completely different things. AMD can probably show some benchmarks of their dual core shortly, but who cares if I can't buy it until mid 2005 (or later)?The 6800 Ultra has been out for what like 2 months. I still can't buy that either (nor sell it, which is pissing my customers off..."why don't you have it, I've been waiting 2 months"...blah). The prescott 3.4E just finally started shipping last week for crying out loud (15th I think it was..strangely that press release is GONE everywhere..hmmm). I think reviewers should either completely disregard products that can't be bought or at least dedicate a good paragraph of two to the track record of the last release, and how you'll probably be waiting for months for the one 'we're reviewing today'. I'd say the same about ATI's, but at least one place is selling its best for $999 (ROFLMAO...IN STOCK though..heh).
Note that Dell's 3.6E isn't expected until December! http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=17347 (5 months away?) I can see telling me about something I might be able to get next week, or maybe 2 weeks, but we're talking 3-5 month paper launches here. Do my statements make more sense to you now? Maybe I'm just tired of customers chewing my butt as if I could do something about it.
FactorOfTwo - Thursday, July 22, 2004 - link
#34, the ECC support question is less obvious than you might think.The specs for socket 939 boards I have checked either say "non-ECC", or don't say either way, except I learned today that the MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum does say it supports ECC.
The general lack of support is surprising given the Athlon64's on-board memory controller. AMD's specs do say the 939 CPUs support ECC, but that does not obviously imply that all motherboards do.
Some official specs that explicitly say non-ECC:
ASUS AV8 Deluxe:
http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=A8V%20Deluxe&a...
ABIT AV8:
http://www2.abit.com.tw/page/en/motherboard/mother...
Wesley Fink - Thursday, July 22, 2004 - link
#49 & #50 - There is indeed a Socket 775 3.4EE, but as Anand showed in his 775 launch article the 3.6 is actually a faster CPU. you can check his results at http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...Our motherboard testing showed the same thing, which is why we did not even bother to test with the 3.4EE. It is true there a few benchmarks where you pick up a few points with the 3.4EE, but the difference is generally small and the 3.6 is faster overall. Of course the 3.4EE is in addition a lot more expensive than the 3.6. Given the 3.4EE cost and lack of standout performance, we felt the fastest 3.6 compared to the fastest FX53 was the fairest comparison at the top.
It would have possibly made sense to include Socket 754 data for the 3400+ for instance, but that is a different socket and could not be tested in these boards. Those benchmarks are available in the 2nd Generation 754 motherboard motherboard roundup at http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2063. Since those benchmarks were done only a few weeks ago we didn't repeat them, but we could include the K8N Neo (754) running a 3400+ for referenc in future charts.
We never had an FX53 754 in the motherboard lab so that direct comparison can't be done here. However, Derek did exactly that comparison in his 939 launch review at http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?...
RyanVM - Thursday, July 22, 2004 - link
#49: "There is NO P4EE for S775"There very much is a Socket775 P4EE at 3.4GHz. Did you read any reviews at all before spouting that off?
ThePlagiarmaster - Thursday, July 22, 2004 - link
#22 TrogdorJWFirst of all, ONLY 1 place shows the 560 P4 "IN STOCK" and only 2 others as PRE-ORDER. Is it even fair to say this CPU exists? The 3.6EE doesn't exist yet either in any socket. I would have liked to see more cpu's like you, but the 3800+ would be the only real need here, as it is the exact price range as the 560 (but a A643000+ and P4 3.0 would be cool for the poor). However, when looking at the situation as a whole who'd pass on 64bit, TOTALLY UNLOCKED chip, and domination for around $90-100? If you're spending $700 on a CPU wouldn't you spend $788 to dominate, and completely obliterate once 64bit gets going (did I mention the totally unlocked part?)? If that $100 really means that much the 3800+ w/64bit is much better (not to mention gaming domination now). On another note, you can't expect Anandtech to compare a CPU that won't even go into S775 yet. There is NO P4EE for S775. How could they possibly throw in one of those? Even for S478 there are only 10 places selling them (3.4EE, again no 3.6EE exists) let alone how many in stock. Test a dead end 3.4EE S478? Better include a caveat then that states it's about to be EOL.
Why test Xvid when its not a real standard? Divx is barely getting going in DVD players, getting Xvid on them too (right now) is a shot at a dart board. I'd prefer they drop these tests totally and show a DVD9-DVD5 rip as I think people are more interested in that. I don't know anyone encoding to divx when dvd burners are $60. Who actually watches movies on their PC (not many)? Who wants to fight to get X revision of Y codec to work on their setop DVD player? I think many more people are joining netflix (etc) and DVD9-5'ing it. Or just downloading what someone else already did (9-5) in the newsgroups. Downloading from the newsgroups (what divx was made for pretty much) is pointless when you have to try to get [x version, at y resolution and z codec and xyz audio bitrate (heh, ran out of letters)] to work on your dvd player. The only way to get them to work 100% is buying a player and doing your own rips that you prove WORK on your player (nobody trading on the web does vids to your dvd players specs mind you). But why would you go divx/xvid at all if you're doing this yourself (and not sharing them) with retail dvds? Wouldn't you dvd9-5 it instead and end all compatibility BS? If you're talking quality, divx/xvid etc is NOT DVD Quality. No matter how you encode it. Burn a DVD and get it over with :)
RE: 64bits breaking 4gb. That's not what its about for us Desktop users. It's about the extra registers etc. We are probably 3-5yrs from 6-8GB on desktops (as norm). On desktops you've seen anands (etc) tests with 2GB or under but getting the EXTRA registers benefits. In a server review I'd expect 8GB or more tested. In a desktop review 4GB will make no difference in anything they'd probably throw at this review. Also, if you can afford GB dimms, you'll buy a server BECAUSE you're trying to break the barrier for X app that you use and have 16 slots probably for smaller sized dimms (at 1/2 the cost). Desktops have no more than 4GB support in ANY board on either side. We are only after the OTHER benefits of 64bit. The extra registers can be used with just a GB of memory. I'm not against having 4GB in my machine, but I don't see how it would change any of these tests. Just 2GB in one test setup could show us if anything would happen, no need for 4gb just yet.
I'd also like to see more games thrown at these machines. Use fraps to toss in more game types that don't have benching built-in. Painkiller, Perimeter, Ground Control 2, City of Heroes,Battlecry3 etc. CPU/Motherboard tests should look more like the videocard tests. On top of that, aren't we all downloading something in say Xnews/Agent etc while playing some game? How does that affect FPS? Pick a game and test the same group like that. Saturate your cable connection by firing up an easynews download or something, and benchmark a game. I'd think this would show NForce3 and Intel's chipsets at a MAJOR advantage as the Ethernet is NOT PCI. I'd bet tons of people download while playing games (online or not). Life sucks on PCI in this case.
One more comment/question. Where is the driver that scored 80+ in DRV and DX and dominated the rest of the workstation tests, even aquamark etc in this review: http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2036&am...
We're talking 20-40% improvements and that was on a 5950 vs. this reviews 6800ultra. Seems I'd really want that performance for FREE. Where's that driver? 88 to 57 in DRV? SHEESH. How'd they do that? Where can we get it? I expected workstation domination on nvidia boards here.
Anemone - Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - link
Silly me on the MSI lan - new board using the NF3 250 LAN, right design, I didn't read carefully.My bad
Anemone - Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - link
I like them being interested in overclocking and speed :)Curious of Asus will put out a NF3 ultra board. Curious why MSI didn't use the NF3 Lan - since its better and lower in cpu useage.
Great review!
llamas - Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - link
How long do we have to wait for micro-ATX motherboards in socket 939?JKing76 - Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - link
Thanks Wesley! Can't believe I missed that.Richdog - Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - link